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Post by Prone on Jul 28, 2006 11:35:47 GMT -8
The last topic on christianity, by phoenixflare500, was about whether christ was the son of God. This topic is really about why the world can't see peace.
I was listening to a christian song by todd agnew this morning at work, and suddenly i broke down. I was thinking of how many of our world's leaders have no idea how to obtain peace, and they have wars to settle their disputes. I was also thinking of how life is very diverse outside america.
Al-Qaeda has no idea what truth is, because they have perverted their religion. They want to achieve peace, but they believe that it is no problem to continue their crusade, butchering Iraqi and american prisoners. They attempt to show God's order through violent acts that they believe will allow them to get their point across.
Adolf hitler believed that he could rid the world of evil just by wiping out the jews. He had them humiliated in the hopes that they wouldn't be of any influence in the german world at the time. He even defined Nazis as the "master race" where all other races were seen as lower than germans. He sought to take over the world, and be rid of the jews once and for all. He was a good man at heart, but he went crazy.
Peace will never be achieved, until sin is gone from this world. Please, i don't was any bias in this topic. Only people who have thoughtful things to say, please post in this topic. I mean to make it a worthwhile topic.
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Post by theshinobot on Jul 28, 2006 20:49:06 GMT -8
we can only get rid of sin by freeing everyone from this LIFE of sin.
soooo mass suicide guys, lets do this.
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PhoenixFlare500
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I like chocolate[ss:LostPeon's Gray][ss:LostPeon's Gray]
Posts: 896
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Post by PhoenixFlare500 on Jul 28, 2006 21:52:24 GMT -8
Prone, I'd say I told you so, but Shino kinda just did it for me...
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Post by technohawk on Jul 29, 2006 3:13:37 GMT -8
Hehe that response from shinobot is totally unlike his previous posts, thus confirming he's here just to add some fun.
Interestingly prone, you talk about al-qaeda as continuing their "crusade." Since the arabs homelands have been invaded countless times from the "Christian Crusades" that tried to convert muslims to christianity and killed anyone who didn't convert.
I also wonder why you didn't talk about the usa government when they have done equal attrocities.
1) American soldiers have intentionally raped, murdered and tortured civilians. They have also done the same to the criminals. I think the average death toll for civilians in Iraq is now at 3000 a month, due to BOTH al-qaeda and american/allied troops.
Yea, ok, sure, i can agree with that. BUT! Isn't that what the US and allies are doing as well. Forcing democracy onto Iraq through violent acts of aggression towards it's people?
Adolf Hitler, good man, went crazy, film at eleven. You REALLY think he was a good man gone bad??? REALLY??
My own opinion of him is that he was a bad man gone completely out of his DAMN mind!!! He may have been charasmatic enough to get an entire nation to hate another race, but he was not good.
but i am digressing.
To answer why the world can't see peace is because they don't want to. Humanity seems to have a need for conflict. People need monsters to fight and feel like heroes. And if there are no real monsters, then we create them.
We add labels to every difference between ourselves (christian,jew,arab,gay,straight,replublican,democrat,smart,stupid etc.) It is far easier to fight/hate/fear a label than an individual and easier to categorize any labeled group into monsters.
As for the talk about cleansing the world of sin, that isn't feasible. Not because people aren't capable of it, but because sin is too broadly defined.
One man's virtue is another man's sin. To some people eating red meat on a Friday is a sin. To some ending the life of a partially developed fetus is a sin but to those same people ending the life of a felon is not a sin.
Peace will likely be achieved when everyone in the world has nothing but peace in their hearts. So I'm guessing several hundred millenia should do the trick.
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Post by Prone on Jul 29, 2006 10:50:51 GMT -8
That is if christ doesn't come first. To those aren't christians, they can help clean up the world, by being good citizens, but how can this happen?
I know the american government has tortured innocent iraqi prisoners too to get its point across. The sad thing is, if you watched "loose change 9/11" you'll find out that the american government played some role in secretely planning the attack on the trade tour. How, i don't really know. All the people on flight 93 which was supposed to crash into the pentagon, actually flew to another airport on the west coast. What happened to the people, we don't know. They might have been killed, as to hide the evidence. This may be superstition, but it seems feasible if a government hates the president, or trying to get back at an insult.
American ideals have faded dramatically since new conflicts arise. Take guantanamo bay for example: after we started the war in iraq, we started to send captured prisoners back to GB and start up several "black sites" that became torture zones, in scattered places. You may be familiar with the news story by dana priest, which leaked sensitive information from the government that relayed all that america was doing to its prisoners. Things go back and forth, and don't seem to go anywhere.
One point that i'd like to make in this post is to say that i heard from a friend that hitler was a good man, but psychologically messed up, probably as a young man. When he got older, he got better, but his mental side probably got triggered from some event, and that is the reason why he went balistic.
Life isn't what it used to be: back in the garden of eden.
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Post by rbobatar on Jul 30, 2006 10:41:36 GMT -8
YOU ARE SUCH AN IDIOT
WORDS CANNOT EXPRESS MY CONTEMPT FOR YOU IF YOU ACTUALLY BELIEVE JESUS WILL COME BACK. IF YOU THINK THAT WHY DONT YOU JUST KIL YOURSELF NOW AND STOP WASTING THE PRECIOUS RESOURCES WE NEED NOW RATHER THAN SQUANDERING THEM LIKE PEOPLE LIKE YOU WANT TO DO SINCE WE WONT NEED THEM IN THE FUTURE IF JESUS IS COMING BACK
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Post by greeny on Jul 30, 2006 21:43:24 GMT -8
I was listening to a christian song by todd agnew this morning at work, and suddenly i broke down. To be honest ptc, this made me smile and want to laugh. I'm sorry if that's mean, but christian rock is bad for the most part. I'm Christian, but I don't like people telling me how to worship or what God can do for me. I have my own views on both religion in general AND Christianity/Catholicism. I take what I like and forget the rest. You know, you don't actually need to do much to be in contact with God? But anyway. When I read that it made me really happy. Sorry. Al-Qaeda has no idea what truth is, because they have perverted their religion. They want to achieve peace, but they believe that it is no problem to continue their crusade, butchering Iraqi and american prisoners. They attempt to show God's order through violent acts that they believe will allow them to get their point across. Al-Qaeda have not per say perverted their religion. They have taken what they have from their scriptures and interpreted it to mean some pretty awful things. And yes, Americans do it too. Have you seen those t-shirts? "Fighting for peace is like f**king for virginity"? It's true. The American army (with help from Britain and Canada) is leading an annoyingly prolonged slaughter on the Middle East. They're killing so that the Iraqi people would be free. I can tell you that I would rather live with all my family and live under shitty means than have my family brutally murdered/humiliated and having my country occupied and STILL living in shitty circumstances. The war is not a war. There was an act of Terrorism. George Bush got his revenge 3 years ago. Right now, he's doing nothing. But it's a two-way street too. Both sides are doing the same things to each other. America just has huge resources, so they're hammering the f**k out of Iraq right now. And now America isn't even approving the leaders that were democratically voted in. It's just pure power now. Adolf hitler believed that he could rid the world of evil just by wiping out the jews. He had them humiliated in the hopes that they wouldn't be of any influence in the german world at the time. He even defined Nazis as the "master race" where all other races were seen as lower than germans. He sought to take over the world, and be rid of the jews once and for all. He was a good man at heart, but he went crazy. Adolf was just looking for his own Utopia. He blamed everything on the Jews because for some reason they just pissed him off. He didn't believe the whole "evil" thing, but he told his followers that so that they would be convinced enough to act on the horrendous orders he'd give to them. He was never a good man. He is actually truly evil. There is no excuse for that behaviour. He was a smart man. He was actually quite a brilliant man. But he was always crazy. He had charisma and brains and he could have done anything. He did do anything. He wasn't right in the head, but he was really smart. He was actually evil though. There was no good in him, I'm pretty damn positive of that. I know the american government has tortured innocent iraqi prisoners too to get its point across. The sad thing is, if you watched "loose change 9/11" you'll find out that the american government played some role in secretely planning the attack on the trade tour. How, i don't really know. All the people on flight 93 which was supposed to crash into the pentagon, actually flew to another airport on the west coast. What happened to the people, we don't know. They might have been killed, as to hide the evidence. This may be superstition, but it seems feasible if a government hates the president, or trying to get back at an insult Okay. Loose Change never proved anything. They used statistics. Hoo hah. Who else used statistics to rally support? Hmm... hasn't anyone read animal farm? That's what happened too. Loose Change tried to provide proof. Sure a lot of the shit is fishy but there's no direct proof of any actual occurrences. It's a movie to make you think. They don't tell you anything. Also, you're "government hating the president", im guessing you think THAT'S why it happened, the government was trying to ruin George Bush? Look at how well it defined George Bush's presidency. It has showed him as strong. To a lot of American people, he has become a hero. All this was on purpose. If anything, if it was the States/ a big conspiracy, then it would have been to benifit Bush. and.... I really want to second that. A lot of your views are very close minded/a completely just straight wierd view. I don't get you very well. At all. Please more discussion on this everyone.
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Post by softspoken on Aug 29, 2006 23:08:01 GMT -8
So is this the end of this thread, due to greeny kicking ptc's ass? I think so.
BUT, I'm really agreeing with pretty much everything greeny said, because those are along the lines pretty much the same views that I have on the topic, so I think you're kind of ... weird ptc, you have some strange views on things.
Well, read for yourself, don't present facts you're treating as your own knowledge and opinion, when it's something a friend told you, because you're just saying what your friend may or may not have gotten right, all the while making it sound like it was your opinion. Personally, I don't think he was a "good" man, I think he definately had some serious psychological problems, and maybe a traumatic incident or trigger from his childhood or something caused him to hate against other races and jewish people especially.... but no "good" person, would every do that to anybody, of any race, of any religion... it just doesn't happen when you're a good person! If you have love in your heart, you treat others the way you would like to be treated. I don't believe a person can trully think they deserve such torture and hate towards them for simply being who they are. Hitler was ... loveless, and wanted to control things he had no right to control. He didn't accept the fact that people had freedom, and he thought some that had it, didn't deserve it, so he took it away from them.
Yeah no shit... some believe that's why we have sin and evil in our world because of the mistake that was made long ago... and it just keeps carrying on. Whatever, I dont' really care much about that.., I believe in God and some... stories of the bible I guess, but I believe in a lot of different things and at times both agree and disagree on one topic, just because it's not always black and white.... there's usually always some greys.
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Post by LostPeon™ on Aug 30, 2006 17:20:16 GMT -8
BUT, I'm really agreeing with pretty much everything greeny saidFirst off... must be a Canadian thing... Personally, I don't think he was a "good" man, I think he definately had some serious psychological problems, and maybe a traumatic incident or trigger from his childhood or something caused him to hate against other races and jewish people especially.... but no "good" person, would every do that to anybody, of any race, of any religion... it just doesn't happen when you're a good person! If you have love in your heart, you treat others the way you would like to be treated. I don't believe a person can trully think they deserve such torture and hate towards them for simply being who they are. Hitler was ... loveless, and wanted to control things he had no right to control. He didn't accept the fact that people had freedom, and he thought some that had it, didn't deserve it, so he took it away from them.Secondly, Hitler was an incredible leader and a master at what he did. His abilities led to great advances in German technology and other fields. Sure, he made a few "questionable" choices... but can we really blame him? Everybody makes a mistake now and again. Forgive and forget, right? (In case you didn't notice, I'm just poking fun with that last statement) Oh, and one other thing: You say "good" people don't do things like Hitler did and that he was loveless. I believe people do have an innate sense of right and wrong. However, there is also a lot to do with that concerning how a person was brought up and their childhood. If a child sees something as the right thing to do and sees everybody doing it, then most likely, they will grow up and have that view on what ever it may be. Also, as was mentioned, mental illness most likely played a critical part in Hitler's actions. So, like I said, barring the whole Holocaust thing and a few other not-so-great ideas, Hitler was pretty much, well... AWESOME.
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PhoenixFlare500
Diamond Membership
I like chocolate[ss:LostPeon's Gray][ss:LostPeon's Gray]
Posts: 896
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Post by PhoenixFlare500 on Aug 30, 2006 19:39:06 GMT -8
On a side note to a previous comment made in this thread, I like some Christian rock.
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Post by oleander on Aug 30, 2006 22:05:38 GMT -8
Christian rock is Just as SICKENING as Priests' Obsession with young Boys.
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Post by LostPeon™ on Aug 30, 2006 22:09:11 GMT -8
</3 Christian Rock.
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Post by softspoken on Aug 31, 2006 21:15:11 GMT -8
Ahhh alright Lost, whatever you say. Like obviously it had to do with how he was raised and such, like my friend whose family is very racist, well she has her moments too because she doesn't think it's a problem at all...... so yeah how the parents raised him would have a big impact on Hitler's point of view. He was a mad man, but yes, a great leader, doesn't matter he wasn't a positive one, he was a good one though.
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Post by mortalcry on Sept 1, 2006 23:18:35 GMT -8
Ok, as a believer in Christ, i have a few words to say, so bear with me, so to speak.. i believe that we have a destiny here on earth to join all races and cultures and become one body of people at peace. But, in order to do that we have to establish the fact that there is good and evil. Consider this.. how much time does it take to sacrifice your sweat and tears to build something, such as a house? its good to construct and create, while its easy to tear the very same structure in less than 1/1000th of the time it took to build it. My point? All im saying is that it is our choice to either build or destroy, and that directly affects the world around us in some way or another. Such as in the case of hitler.....he tried to make his vision of the perfect world, but he did it in mass holocaust. obviously for good reason he was stopped...he was corrupted by his own pride and a massive drive for power that would resemble a god like stature..not for the common good of man... On the topic of our own country...a slightly contraversional view of mine is that our government is very controlling, namely in voting..200 years ago we had the actual right to vote, and the vote ACTUALLY COUNTED. Do you mind telling me what the actual purpose of the ellectoral college does besides overule the country's votes? My point?, greed....money=power in this country...people allow money to corrupt them every day. Examples: credit cards, house payments, car loans, bank loans of every kind, including ski boats? That very same money that is being used to over- take countries could be feeding the homeless in africa or even here. people are so consumed by their everyday lives that they dont take the time to look around them..see other people and their lives, some with hardship, some with prosperity, and all who are still looking for the meaning of life.. hmm, the meaning of life... history states that this country of the united states of america was founded based on christian doctrin and principals (the Holy Bible) aka the book of right and wrong, which states that, there is a God, there is a Son, and there is a Holy spirit given by the Son. There is something about that book that intrigues me, so i have to keep reading it to find out what the answer is. Perhaps the more i read the wiser ill become(hopefully) and find the true meaning of life for all of mankind... Besides , if you believe in evolution then you believe in something that doesnt exist....Someone had to create us, this world that always manages to "survive" through adverse conditions of every kind. Is it just me or is it that every time a man tries to impersonate a god that he falls short of his optimal glory? Do you think there could be a reason for that?, hmmmm....
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Post by greeny on Sept 1, 2006 23:43:55 GMT -8
To find the meaning of life for all mankind, you'd have to read the books of all mankind. Not just the Bible: Limited views on a limited people. You'd have to read the Tao, the Koran, the Torah, among others.
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