|
Post by grayfox7 on Sept 2, 2006 7:43:28 GMT -8
(the Holy Bible) aka the book of right and wrong, which states that, there is a God, there is a Son, and there is a Holy spirit given by the Son. There is something about that book that intrigues me, so i have to keep reading it to find out what the answer is. Perhaps the more i read the wiser ill become(hopefully) and find the true meaning of life for all of mankind... I'm with Greeny completely on this. You would have to read much more widely than just the Bible to "find the true meaning of life for all of mankind." Besides , if you believe in evolution then you believe in something that doesnt exist....Someone had to create us, this world that always manages to "survive" through adverse conditions of every kind. Justify this. That second sentence is opinion and not fact. Is it just me or is it that every time a man tries to impersonate a god that he falls short of his optimal glory? Do you think there could be a reason for that?, hmmmm.... Yeah, the religious types get jealous and take him down a notch.
|
|
|
Post by mortalcry on Sept 2, 2006 9:22:08 GMT -8
Its not only the history of mankind, but the choices of man that makes the difference and makes the history itself.... ( i agree with you in one respect, that if you don't read the history,youl never le arn from their mistakes) On evolution...prove to me that we evolved from an amoeba, a fish, a dinosaur ..whatever, its just mans way to avoid the truth, which i believe(the bible considering the amount of time that it has existed) . hmm, darwin's theory has only existed for maybe 50 years?...plus where is the hard evidence of this theory? there has been findings of noah's ark, the cross, etc. but no trace of fish or frog or dinosaur, whatever...dna in our bodies...hmm Why does man continue on cloneing and try to make everyone think that that he is creating( just had to throw that in there)
|
|
|
Post by grayfox7 on Sept 2, 2006 16:46:54 GMT -8
On evolution...prove to me that we evolved from an amoeba, a fish, a dinosaur ..whatever, its just mans way to avoid the truth, which i believe(the bible considering the amount of time that it has existed) . hmm, darwin's theory has only existed for maybe 50 years?...plus where is the hard evidence of this theory? there has been findings of noah's ark, the cross, etc. but no trace of fish or frog or dinosaur, whatever...dna in our bodies...hmm Why does man continue on cloneing and try to make everyone think that that he is creating( just had to throw that in there) I don't think any humans ever evolved from a fish or a dinosaur... Darwin's book The Origin of Species was first published in 1859, which is considerably longer than 50 years ago. Are you believing the Bible only because it's older than Darwin's theories? What about every other religion or group that had its own creation myths and theories which existed before the Bible was written?
|
|
|
Post by greeny on Sept 2, 2006 22:21:10 GMT -8
On evolution...prove to me that we evolved from an amoeba, a fish, a dinosaur ..whatever, its just mans way to avoid the truth, which i believe(the bible considering the amount of time that it has existed) . hmm, darwin's theory has only existed for maybe 50 years?...plus where is the hard evidence of this theory? there has been findings of noah's ark, the cross, etc. but no trace of fish or frog or dinosaur, whatever...dna in our bodies...hmm Why does man continue on cloneing and try to make everyone think that that he is creating( just had to throw that in there) I don't think any humans ever evolved from a fish or a dinosaur... Darwin's book The Origin of Species was first published in 1859, which is considerably longer than 50 years ago. Are you believing the Bible only because it's older than Darwin's theories? What about every other religion or group that had its own creation myths and theories which existed before the Bible was written? Christianity, in the scope of the world, is still kinda relatively new. We have some of the most limited views on the world, in pretty much every sense. The Origin Of The Species was nearly 150 years ago in fact. Plus I'm drunk at the moment. Just because the Bible talks stuff about Christians belief about life, doesn';t mean that's the true story. Christianity has such a limited view in the overall scope of humanity. What about Buddhism? What about Judaism? What about Muslim? There are so many views on every aspect of the world. Like, what with what Gray and me said, the meaning of life cannot be taken from the beliefs of one certain peoples. Neither can any views of the world. You need a view that is common among all people, otherwise it can't be fully educated. A completely educated opinion is based on facts presented by all sides of a story.
|
|
|
Post by mortalcry on Sept 3, 2006 0:06:20 GMT -8
OK...Here we go.. Christianity has been around for oh id say about, 2006 years, considering the date-line of christ's death. i'd say that is satisfactory, unless your believing that that's not a long time. Ironically Darwin after his many years of scientific research could not find a basis for his own research. He eventually turned toward the Christian view of creationism because of the many intricate structures that involove life, such as the splitting of cells.... Compare the Bible with all other religions... why would man write about the redemption of sin? We all should have the basic knowledge that there is a difference between good and bad, the bible explains that clearly, but do other religions? For example, adultery, everyone knows its wrong, but they do it and suffer conseqences for the very act of it. Bible clearly states that it is wrong. People in general dont feel confortable with the Bible and the christian life because of what it demands of them..Sacrifice of themselves to serve others in need of hope and a saviour. The whole idea in reading it is to understand it. But if you read it like a history book, then thats all it is. Naturally, if you are faithful to whatever "entity" you chose, you will recieve results of your faith...If you are faithful to yourself, you will recieve that of which YOU only have achieved. If you put your faith in another person, you will recieve what he/she has to offer you. if you put your faith in buddha you will recieve what the golden statue has to offer, if you are faithful in the amash you will recieve a lack in technology. If you are faithful in Christ you will recieve forgiveness, and become an heir in the kingdom of heaven, etc. Its a matter of what you want. (Incidentally, the Bible is the best selling book for some reason, maybe because its been around since man could write{OLD TESTAMENT}) On another note, the Bible does not appeal to man in a way that other religions do. The romans in the time of Christ had an enormous amount of "gods" to worship, but they also had orgies ,were drunk all the time, hookers, etc. They hated Him because they were told they were wrong. They oppressed Him, and all he did was preach the Word of the new covenant to those who would listen....
|
|
|
Post by greeny on Sept 3, 2006 0:12:39 GMT -8
do you realise how slack Christianity is in terms of conduct with other realigions?! with muslim, if you eat meat or unkosher food you will burn in their hell, regardless of how sorry you are for it. with christianity all you have to technically do is be sorry for your sins.
|
|
|
Post by grayfox7 on Sept 3, 2006 0:20:02 GMT -8
OK...Here we go.. Christianity has been around for oh id say about, 2006 years, considering the date-line of christ's death. i'd say that is satisfactory, unless your believing that that's not a long time. What are you trying to prove here? Christianity is not the oldest religion in the world. Far from it. Are you trying to say that just because Christianity is older than Darwin's book, it is correct? Also, Jesus didn't die in the year 0 A.D., which does not exist. Ironically Darwin after his many years of scientific research could not find a basis for his own research. He eventually turned toward the Christian view of creationism because of the many intricate structures that involove life, such as the splitting of cells.... Did you just make this up? Compare the Bible with all other religions... why would man write about the redemption of sin? We all should have the basic knowledge that there is a difference between good and bad, the bible explains that clearly, but do other religions? For example, adultery, everyone knows its wrong, but they do it and suffer conseqences for the very act of it. Bible clearly states that it is wrong. People in general dont feel confortable with the Bible and the christian life because of what it demands of them..Sacrifice of themselves to serve others in need of hope and a saviour. The whole idea in reading it is to understand it. But if you read it like a history book, then thats all it is. Naturally, if you are faithful to whatever "entity" you chose, you will recieve results of your faith...If you are faithful to yourself, you will recieve that of which YOU only have achieved. If you put your faith in another person, you will recieve what he/she has to offer you. if you put your faith in buddha you will recieve what the golden statue has to offer, if you are faithful in the amash you will recieve a lack in technology. If you are faithful in Christ you will recieve forgiveness, and become an heir in the kingdom of heaven, etc. Its a matter of what you want. (Incidentally, the Bible is the best selling book for some reason, maybe because its been around since man could write{OLD TESTAMENT}) On another note, the Bible does not appeal to man in a way that other religions do. The romans in the time of Christ had an enormous amount of "gods" to worship, but they also had orgies ,were drunk all the time, hookers, etc. They hated Him because they were told they were wrong. They oppressed Him, and all he did was preach the Word of the new covenant to those who would listen.... I don't know what this has to do with my previous post.
|
|
|
Post by mortalcry on Sept 3, 2006 0:36:14 GMT -8
I'm just wondering why it matters what is eaten and why faith is not understood? Everything is here for us to consume, is it not? Why would there be a law about not eating food?
Definition of faith= the substance of all things hoped for...
I did not say christianity was the oldest religion in the world...
Look it up on Darwin, i believe its right, if not il eat my words...and the food with it!
|
|
|
Post by grayfox7 on Sept 3, 2006 0:45:14 GMT -8
|
|
|
Post by mortalcry on Sept 3, 2006 1:04:44 GMT -8
if thats the most popular post you found, then my statement may not neccesarily be true, considering that it may be an opinion as well, but due to fact that there is discussion at all about it means that it is a possibilty. As the story is told( not in that post)proclaims if he did revert to creationism, then he was on his death bed perhaps, dare i say "repenting", which may be why its such a secret...What do you have to lose when your in that situation of near death and you are looking for something more than whats in the world?? Repenting is not exactly a thing you want to share with everyone around. i suspose its a hope for christian society, since it has become a major stumbling block...
|
|
|
Post by technohawk on Sept 3, 2006 2:23:05 GMT -8
Just when I think I'm out of this area of discussion, i find myself pulled back in(by my own doing).
I could argue so much here but i will just leave it to the current subject of Darwin.
Like the article Gray linked to stated, Darwin did NOT recant. the story was first attributed to his grandfather Erasmus Darwin and then the stories were attributed to Charles Darwin himself.
Here is a link to the Wikipedia article on Darwin and his religious views:
Darwin:[[Charles_Darwin#Religious_views]]
I will paste the part that talks about his deathbed lack of confession then discuss some of my own views(so read the whole post):
Charles Darwin recounted in his biography of his grandfather Erasmus Darwin how false stories were circulated claiming that Erasmus had called for Jesus on his deathbed. Charles concluded by writing "Such was the state of Christian feeling in this country [in 1802].... We may at least hope that nothing of the kind now prevails."
Despite this hope, very similar stories were circulated following Darwin's own death, most prominently the "Lady Hope Story", published in 1915 which claimed he had converted on his sickbed. Such stories have been propagated by some Christian groups, to the extent of becoming urban legends, though the claims were refuted by Darwin's children and have been dismissed as false by historians.
His daughter, Henrietta, who was at his deathbed, said that he did not convert to Christianity.
My own opinions:Independent Thought Alert!
Having the poster boy for evolution recant and admit he was wrong would have been a great victory for creationists. Ironically, the last several Catholic Popes have accepted parts of evolutionary theory, although this just never gets a lot of press. Here's a link to the Wiki on it.
[[Evolution_and_popes]]
It seems to be a habit of organizations such as Christian groups, that, if you cannot refute facts, then make the person stating those facts out to look bad and/or misguided. Failing that, they can wait until that person dies and then fabricate deathbed conversions.
This leads me to my final rant of the night, which is about the deathbed conversions and the thinking behind them.
A deathbed conversion/confession sounds like a great gig. Spend 99.99% of your life doing whatever you want, even if it's totally against your religion's "moral views" and then a minute before you die, say your sorry and POOF! you get right into heaven.
To me that's like someone going through kindergarten to grade 12 without studying or doing any work toward graduating at all. Then, one minute before grad time, they tell the principal, "I really am sorry I was bad student, but for this next minute I will be a good student." And WOOHOO! the kid gets to graduate with a perfect report card that is retroactive right back to kindergarten.
Now, I DO believe in God and I do believe God to be happy and benevolent. So I definitely believe God to be completely forgiving.
BUT!!!!! To allow people to do whatever they want for the majority of their lives and then to just confess their "sins" WITHOUT having to have learned anything and be instantly transported to heaven seems quite retarded.
I do have theories/alternatives as to what would make more sense(to me at least) but I will leave those for hopefully never, because that would just start a whole other annoying debate like the previous Jesus thread which I had hoped would die, but mortal had to post there 4-5 months after it had ended.
For that, he goes to hell. Legal Dsiclaimer: The final sentence of the above post was created using sarcasm and irony. If you do not understand the concept of sarcasm or that of irony then you are probably the most intelligent person in the entire universe.
|
|
|
Post by greeny on Sept 3, 2006 6:32:56 GMT -8
mortal, that's only western civilization that has given humans the feeling of dominance over all other life. They have rules over meat, as in, you can't take another life just to satisfy your stomach. That's why the rules are set, it's not like i follow those rules or anything close to it, but at least open your mind to something that's a bit obvious. most other cultures operate on the belief that we are lucky to be here and try to find the most in ourselves rather than in things to be doing or eating or possessing.
ummm.. you're kidding me right? according to my Christian belief, the deal is that during your confession... you repent. that implies feeling sorry about your deeds. being truly sorry for them. and this is God's judgement too, like you can't just say "oh im really sorry" and it's all dandy. the point is one last chance to redeem yourself, but you have to really feel it for the thing to count.
|
|
|
Post by grayfox7 on Sept 3, 2006 8:35:36 GMT -8
if thats the most popular post you found, then my statement may not neccesarily be true, considering that it may be an opinion as well, but due to fact that there is discussion at all about it means that it is a possibilty. Not necessarily. It could just be a rumor or an outright lie that gained popularity. What do you mean by "most popular post"? As the story is told( not in that post)proclaims if he did revert to creationism, then he was on his death bed perhaps, dare i say "repenting", which may be why its such a secret...What do you have to lose when your in that situation of near death and you are looking for something more than whats in the world?? Repenting is not exactly a thing you want to share with everyone around. i suspose its a hope for christian society, since it has become a major stumbling block... *sigh* But it's not a secret and everyone who was questioned about it said that it was false and untrue!
|
|
|
Post by Chalupa! on Sept 3, 2006 12:05:21 GMT -8
What Darwin did on his death bed hardly provides evidence of evolution being true or false. I don't know what he thought right before he died although I believe his theory was wrong. (That's right, we all know it's was and still is just a theory) A few interesting things I found on the internet: At one time, these findings were used as proof. I wonder if 60 minutes had anything ..... nevermind. These and many other facts against evolution: www.freewebtown.com/dug1243/Here is a link that quotes many Scientists who believe Evolution cannot be correct: www.pathlights.com/ce_encyclopedia/01-evol1.htmThe list could go on and on. Evolution is a myth but I can't blame those of you that believe it for wanting to believe in something you were taught in school by people you might have respect for. There are just way too many holes in this Theory.
|
|
|
Post by LostPeon™ on Sept 3, 2006 14:57:51 GMT -8
So, what you're trying to say is that there is a chance. Thanks for clearing that up.
Well, something has got to be the most complicated thing in the known universe... I don't see why this can't be the human brain. I fail to see how this proves anything.
Bullshit.
Here's some direct quotes from my geology textbook:
[/direct quotes]
And I presume Christianity, the Bible, etc. are rock solid?
P.S.
I also tend to have little faith in people who can't spell and have no understanding of grammar rules.
|
|