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Post by greeny on Aug 3, 2006 21:42:51 GMT -8
Good idea or bad? It's worked pretty well in Vancouver for preventing deaths by OD... however... not sure how well it works on the grand scale.
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dxlightning
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[ss:LostPeon's Gray][ss:LostPeon's Gray]
Posts: 1,246
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Post by dxlightning on Aug 5, 2006 10:10:57 GMT -8
Overall, I think safe injection sites are good. However...there are a few things I don't like about them. For one, I have some personal experience with some friends who seem to think that the idea of these facilities means that the canadian government is leaning towards making drugs legal. It sounds stupid, I know, but I can truly vouch that on my last trip to vancouver I came back to my hotel to find my friends stoned out of their asses, which they would never have done on a visit in the states (except when we went to Las Vegas, of course). My second problem with drug injection sites is that it takes one corrupt worker to make the drug problem explode. Looking at the last goal (taken from the City of Vancouver's SIS FAQ), it's obvious to me that if one worker decided that he wanted to make some cash on the side, he could easily sneak out some needles to a druggie to use however he or she pleases. It's not a big problem, I'm sure, but it bothers me to think that it could happen. Other than those two things, I have no problem with SIS's. I think they're a great idea, looking at the statistics of other facilities in places such as Geneva, Zurich, Frankfort, and even in Sydney. While many people are still overdosing, it's quoted from the same Vancouver FAQ that... In my opinion one quarter is wrong, seeing as many people get their drug on with friends, and many friends would have taken their friends to a hospital or free clinics. The point, however, is that the facilities have indeed saved lives. SIS's aren't going to solve the drug problem. They're not intended to. However, they ARE doing what they need to. They're saving lives by treating people who can't help themselves, and offering counseling and services to people who want to stop. Overall, it's a good idea, and more cities should put it into effect. A link to the city of vancouver... www.city.vancouver.bc.ca/fourpillars/pdf/SIS_FAQs.pdf
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Post by technohawk on Aug 5, 2006 12:51:21 GMT -8
I think that overall these sites are a good step towards helping people eventually end their drug addiction.
It does so by allowing the drug users the opportunity to live a longer life than they would just using dirty needles in the street and contracting a disease that would end their life early.
Instead they can remain relatively disease free(at least from not catching any drug-using related diseases) giving them extra time to kick the habit.
There is the argument that SIS are a defeatist attitude about drug use, essentially admiting that you can't stop someone from using so just let them use but help them use it safely.
But when you consider that the "war on drugs" has failed, then something like this is a better approach. I don't see it as being a defeatist attitude myself.
I think it shows compasion towards people who have drug problems and shows them that someone cares.
Addicts of any kind that are constantly shamed by others about what they do become increasingly stressed. And when they're stressed they need their addictive chemical even more.
When a person or a group shows the drug user the compasion to keep that user healthier, the compasion could help the user kick the habit.
So, overall I say that SIS are good.
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Post by LostPeon™ on Aug 5, 2006 16:34:00 GMT -8
All I've got to say, is: WTF?
Let the stupid druggies die. If they're stupid enough to overdose on whatever they're using, they need to die.
I most certainly don't want my tax dollars going to programs to help these people who are a drain on society. They don't provide anything useful to society, yet they get all sorts of free attention and care, which is being paid for by normal, upstanding citizens. It's down right unfair.
Screw them and spend the money and resources on something more useful.
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dxlightning
Platinum Membership
[ss:LostPeon's Gray][ss:LostPeon's Gray]
Posts: 1,246
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Post by dxlightning on Aug 5, 2006 19:21:32 GMT -8
Like free medical drugs for people in Canada? Because if you consider SIS's a useless thing to spend tax money on, then you also consider medicare, medicaid, or really anything health related a waste of tax dollars. Peon, here's a paper I think You'd like. I wrote it as my final paper for english and got an A. dd3693.livejournal.com/1834.htmlYou can look at the rest of the entries if you'd like, I used this only to show off my final paper for english and also to post answers to Online Homework for chem.
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Post by germloucks on Aug 5, 2006 22:41:16 GMT -8
Oh wow, im sorry Lost.
Im a recovering Alcoholic/Drug addict (basically the same thing).. but im not going to take personal offense to that... Instead, ill try to change your mind a bit?
A person afflicted with the disease of addiction has a very strange problem indeed. The disease manifests itself in the alcoholic's mind. The disease is two-fold. It is a mental obsession, coupled with a physical allergy. Our brains condemn us to keep on using/drinking... all the while assuring us that our lives, and bodies will be consumed in the process.
The disease is so hideous, that only 1 in 2 people ever fully recover from it.
Almost all alcoholics/addicts need much more than simple abstinence... because abstinence almost never works by itself. For sucessful recovery, most need a way of life grounded in a power greater than themselves.
You dont have to feel sorry for us, you dont have to fund help for us.. but please dont give up on us. In your ignorance, you say they should all die. So many have already.
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Post by technohawk on Aug 5, 2006 23:33:41 GMT -8
This past week I met a person who was a recovered drug addict. They had been homeless for years while they were addicted. With support and determination they recovered. The person is now very successful(ie rich financially and health wise) and uses their story to inspire other people to live their own lives to their full potential.
Just because someone has a truly shitty period in their life, it does not mean that they are a write off. They can be extremely useful to society by helping others kick their drug habits.
Even when they are current users of drugs/alcohol they can be useful by giving everyone around them the opportunity to actually be KIND to someone.
Kindness and compasion work far better than ignorance and intollerance when it comes to just about every situation in life.
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Post by LostPeon™ on Aug 6, 2006 18:53:05 GMT -8
Ok, my whole thing is the general idea of welfare.
I'd like to say, first and foremost, I'm not totally against welfare. People come on hard times, need the pick-me-up, and are genuine examples of what welfare is all about.
Others, not so.
We're living in an age now where parents can't spank their own children. Discipline is become taboo. Kids are allowed to do and go as they please.
There is no accountability in today's world. There is no consequences for many wrong-doings.
And when delinquents do fall under the jurisdiction of the law and become prosecuted, the penalties are not near harsh enough.
Offenders often times don't even serve time for severe crimes. Many get slaps on the wrist, and "probation," when, in all actuality, there is no suitable system to keep track of all these criminals on probation or house arrest or any of the countless other impossibly laughable ways our justice system tries to deal with them.
There needs to be harsh penalties. People need to know that crossing the line means consequences. They need to know that their crime won't go unpunished, and seriously dealt with.
And I'll wrap it up by bringing this back to the topic on hand.
Drug/alcohol/etc. addicts need to be dealt with swiftly and effectively. Many times, they are given treatment, only to be set out on their own accord. There needs to be more involvement to get these people off the streets and into, for lack of a better term, concentration camps. If left on their own merit, many will most likely end up back where they started, the only thing gained, another minus in the governments checkbooks. These people, although I agree, they can turn themselves around and become successful and lead healthy lives, need to be given solid direction and need to not be allowed to be swayed by the temptations that may live inside them.
Ok, I could probably go on, but I'll cut it at that for now.
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Post by greeny on Aug 6, 2006 22:32:46 GMT -8
The only thing is, Lost, that these "concentration camps" would cost even more money, especially if government-run. Also, an addict is pretty much an addict for life. Any temptation after treatment can often lead to relapse. It doesn't matter how long or how far removed a person is while in rehab. When they get sent back into the world, many people end up going right where they came from. I was bussing from a party one night and on my bus this guy was talking to another about how he just got out of drug rehab that very day, and he had already spent 500 dollars on drugs. Maybe there has to be some kind of 'Parole', but for so many people who are addicted, consequences do not matter. The nearest goal is to get a fix... please germloucks talk more about you experiences and stuff.
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Post by technohawk on Aug 6, 2006 22:50:48 GMT -8
I agree with Lost about the accountability issue. All people must be held accountable for their actions. But that accountability does not have to come from being stuck in a "gated" community.
In fact, a concentration camp, or jail, does not even induce accountability. It essentially tells the drug user that they cannot and will not ever be able to be drug free and thus have to be locked up. It's a defeatist attitude and is a cop-out to actually trying to find a real "cure" for the addiction.
Although i don't know much about rehab programs i assume that most of them focus more on the detox than on the person.
The focus needs to be on the people themselves. There are triggers that usually set an addict off, even if the addict has been clean for years. It could be people, certain situations, stress etc...
If a person could learn to identify the WHY they do the drugs and then HOW to act in a different manner during those situations, the user would have a better chance at continual sobriety.
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Post by germloucks on Aug 6, 2006 23:18:19 GMT -8
I can understand the anger with the welfare system. It is a great idea on paper, however, its implementation leaves room for abuse.
I dont agree with sticking people away for longer periods of time, for thier crimes. Where is the rehabilitation in that? Essentially, we are saying "we give up" when we just stick them in a tiny cell for years on end. The fear of jail/prison does very little to deter crime. Check out some of the more recent studies done.
What i think people miss.... is that murderers, sexual deviants, and violent criminals ARENT NORMAL. There is something different psychologically about these certain people. Sticking them in a jail cell does little to stem the tide of the problem. Education and treatment need to be implemented along with jail sentences. I dont agree with setting them free.. but i also dont agree with letting them rot in a cell for years on end, without a chance for rehabilitation.
As for addiction in general... Treatment is a great idea, and is already implemented everywhere. Its very common for courts to order drug offenders to treatment, and even to AA in lieu of a small sentence. And i couldnt agree with that more.
But "swiftly" and "effectively" are words you will never see in the Chemical Dependency Counseling field. What people fail to understand, is that there is really no other disease like this one. This thing, that condemns addicts/alcoholics to keep using, is considered a phenomena... the Phenomena of Craving. this is something that never occurs in the average, temperate drinker/user.
The chances of an alcoholic sobering up, and remaining that way forever, without a single relapse, are around 2-5 percent. This increases SLIGHTLY with treatment.. and even more with aftercare such as a half-way house, and outpatient treatment.
This disease is cunning, baffling, and powerful. For it is the very mind of the alcoholic that he must subdue. It is chronic, progressive, and can never be fully eradicated by any treatment known to man.
In spite of all of this.. in spite of the torture, insanity, institutions, and jails that are the inevitable destination of every alcoholic.. the hardest thing you will ever do in your life... will be to convince an alcoholic that he is one. Denial is a very powerful force. you cannot, no matter how you try, stop an alcoholic from drinking... you just cant. They even formed a separate fellowship called Al-Anon, to help with those who spent thier lives trying to "fix" thier alcoholic husbands, wives, and children, and other forms of co-dependency.
If there was some pill.. some shot in the arm we could take, some form of psychology that could cure/prevent this disease.. I certainly would have been innocculated at birth, or been "fixed" years ago.
I started using drugs/alcohol when i was 14. I ended up in my first inpatient treatment center when i was 17.. and then again when i was 19. Ive been to psych wards, numerous outpatient treatments, and several frothy emotional "interventions." I almost failed high school, lost scholarships, got kicked out of college, lost many jobs and have been homeless several times.
On Wednesday, i will have achieved only 3 weeks of sobriety. Its not the longest i have ever been sober, but 3 weeks is still a big achievement. Im only 20 years old, but ive seen enough in my last 5 years to last a lifetime.
What happened to me, was a case of "flash burn" Normally it takes a lot longer than 5 years to convince an alcoholic that he needs to do something about his disease. Some take 40 years out of thier life to drink. The statistics, overall, are pretty depressing. Not because the sciences have failed us, but because of the gravity of the disease.
Opting for a more conservative, and consequentialist attitude towards recovery will not work. It has certainly been tried in the past. I know that if i was unceremoniously stuck into "concentration camps" full of people forcing me to get sober.. i would be drunk off my ass right now. Nothing on this earth will ever separate me from alcohol/drugs. i have to make that decision myself.
[/tirade]
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