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Post by technohawk on Dec 12, 2006 17:32:03 GMT -8
Alright this just made my brain go ? ? ?? ? ?? and then laugh and then back to confusion. Also it will likely stir up some of that good ol feuding between ultra conservatives and moderates and libertarians. You may know about the apocalyptic book series Left Behind that shows how modern day society could handle "the rapture" if it happened today and follows the book of revelations etc... Well, now they've made it a video game. So the debate is about the game and not the book. Is the game and/or the motives behind the game good or evil? Here's an associated press article on the game courteousy of CTV.ca www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20061212/leftbehind_game_061212/20061212?hub=TopStoriesI'd say the game is propoganda mixed with hatred and intollerance. 1st off from the gaming reviewers it seems to be a mediocre game, but many games knocked off from books/movies suck in that manner as well. As for the content to me it seems to be extremely inflammatory against anyone who isn't christian. From what I've read you must try convert your enemies and if you cannot convert them then you must Kill them. And if you kill innocent people it's ok. You get punished by losing some "spirit points" but a few moments of prayer will restore them. Message received: it's ok to kill someone so long as you repent immediately after. Those are my thoughts. Let the debate begin!
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PhoenixFlare500
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Post by PhoenixFlare500 on Dec 12, 2006 19:45:24 GMT -8
That's odd...
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Post by dpgunit on Dec 12, 2006 22:37:08 GMT -8
hell, that'd be fun to play if only to satyrize the ones they were supposed to marketed at.. it's like missionary impossible + destroy all heathens (aliens).
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Post by technohawk on Dec 12, 2006 23:38:09 GMT -8
what gets me is that it is a violent video game. Not super graphically like GTA or anything, but still.
It's a christian based game that includes violence and intollerance and hate, all the things that the christian leaders denounce when they want games to be banned.
Yet a prominant ministry, Focus on the Family , an orginization lead by Dr. James Dobson that usually denounces violent video games, states that this game is great.
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Post by ga on Dec 13, 2006 22:10:37 GMT -8
what gets me is that it is a violent video game. Not super graphically like GTA or anything, but still. It's a christian based game that includes violence and intollerance and hate, all the things that the christian leaders denounce when they want games to be banned. Yet a prominant ministry, Focus on the Family , an orginization lead by Dr. James Dobson that usually denounces violent video games, states that this game is great. because it demonstrates in visual aesthetic, that to which they are fundamentally opposed to? The other games supposebly "glorifY" this, while this makes the point that such things are bad.
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Post by Prone on Dec 14, 2006 12:33:21 GMT -8
Now, that really boggles my mind. My family has gotten christian movies of of focus on the family, and the movies demonstrate moral values, but what you have quoted really should disturb the christian public.
This is setting some very bad example:
1) Kid's who aren't christian at all who do pay too much attention to video games can have this game affect them, so that when, later in their lives, they try to convert, the value from the game will get stuck in their head.
Games, for the most part, are derived from movies, and the majority of people who play the games have no idea that they stemmed from a book, and this game, left behind, twists the movie around. (I'm not saying book, because I have never read the book at all, only the movie, not the second one though.) Ok, I know how the movie goes, but after you described the game, I just thought of how bad this would make Focus on the Family look.
Think for a moment: If an average christian plays this game, and they had no values bestowed on them by their parents, they might learn something from the game itself. Its wrong when a game tries to teach values to someone, if those teachings are not genuine values for a healthy person, and if the kid decides to kill someone after playing the game, which could happen, and I'm sure someone will, then the game must be recalled.
I know all violent games ultimately lead to violence. All sexual games lead to sexuality. All games that teach about gangs, and how to be in one, destroy one's character. All games with smoking, drugs, and swearing ultimately lead to one's downbringing.
If james dobson is allowing this, then why isn't the christian demographic stepping in and stopping it?
I think that christian morals are screwed at this point.
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PhoenixFlare500
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Post by PhoenixFlare500 on Dec 14, 2006 12:46:03 GMT -8
Prone I agree with most of your post, but I assure you this is not true. It does happen, but I believe there are other factors involved.
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dxlightning
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Post by dxlightning on Dec 14, 2006 14:49:36 GMT -8
Besides, if a person can't distinguish that a video game isn't real, chances are they should have been taken by natural selection already.
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Post by Prone on Dec 14, 2006 15:14:43 GMT -8
Prone I agree with most of your post, but I assure you this is not true. It does happen, but I believe there are other factors involved. Well, this creates jealousy within the game. The person wants it more than they used to, and if the parents are trying to take the game away, the kid will rebel. Rebelling with a lot of people will lead to violence. The kid rebels, runs away from home, finds a group of friends who teach him the wrong things, and there you go. He's disrupting his own patterns, and therefore relying on people other than his parents to show him how to live. Its not right!
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dxlightning
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Post by dxlightning on Dec 14, 2006 15:20:50 GMT -8
PTC, you're doing a LOT of speculation there, and I can assure you almost all of that isn't true. I bought GTA San Andreas. I got really into it, my rents took it away and I'm still here. I'm not saying that's how it's gonna be with EVERY child, but you're doing WAY too much speculation. www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/Please go here before your next post so you don't say anything else that's wildly illogical.
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Post by technohawk on Dec 14, 2006 16:46:45 GMT -8
Ironically it took PTC's post to generate some discussion.
I'll have to acknowledge the 2 sections that have started the discussion.
1st the game itself and then games in general.
I can speculate as to why christian groups are supportive of this game. It's because they are extremely biased towards anything that has the name christian associated with it. People in the US(and to a lesser extent, Canada) have become so polarized in their political and religious views that they can make irrational decisions solely based on what their leaders tell them.
So much so that the people will condone things that are considered sins in their own religion. Sins such as murder, intollerance and hatred.
So a game which promotes those things is seen as being good.
Note: I watched the first movie too, back in the day when I was a christian. It's a decent movie but from what I've heard of the books they get deeper into a "christian converts vs the rest of the world" type of situation(oh and the anti-christ is considered 1) Real 2) European and 3) In charge of the UN) but this is speculation and I could be incorrect on some of those statements.
2nd Games in General.
I've been a gamer since I was 5 years old and started playing my parents old (well new at the time) atari game system with like 2 or 4-bit graphics in colour. Then Nintendo and now PC games.
I've played at least 100 games and likely far more. Many of them extremely violent.
I've played every GTA that's come out since the very first one in amazing 2-D. I've played mafia games, racing games etc....
Games that had alcohol, drugs, sex, and of course gratuitous violence.
And yet here I am now, a relatively peaceful person who does his best to stay calm in stressful situations and would rather help someone than hurt them.
I drink only occasionally(but have no qualms about others drinking more, but dangerous binge drinking is another topic) don't smoke, and have never done drugs even though I have had them offered to me before.
To me with games and such they don't have to make people violent. So long as the person playing the game is aware that it's just a game and not real life.
I learned that very early on, probably from my parents.
And PTC your comments on the game actually sound more like you think the kids have become chemically or psychologically addicted to a game. That's pretty far-fetched.
It actually sounds a lot like the uninformed crap that spews from the mouths of those christian leaders meant to cause fear and bigotry against something that they understand very little about.
I mean heck Prone, you've posted rants that make you sound like a violent angry young man that would be Prone_to_violence.
But still, this isn't meant to start up a whole pick on Prone thing. It just seems that Prone is misinformed and/or making up speculation or getting his ideas from an extremely biased source.
Kill pixels not people!
I'll post more later.
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PhoenixFlare500
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Post by PhoenixFlare500 on Dec 14, 2006 17:00:28 GMT -8
the anti-christ is considered 1) Real 2) European and 3) In charge of the UN) but this is speculation and I could be incorrect on some of those statements. This comes from prophecies about the antichrist I believe, probably from Revelation. Now I can admit that I got angry when my parents took away my ability to game. But like I said, there's other factors involved. Many mistakes have been made on both sides. Anyhoo, I'm now very much into America's Army, which for those of you who don't know is a first-person shooter game. Now, I very much enjoy killing people in game 'cause it makes me feel better about myself. However, I'm not happy because I just killed a man. I'm happy 'cause I had a victory in a video game. Playing America's Army is mostly likely not going to cause me to take an AK-47 and start shooting random people on the street. In fact, if I saw somebody doing that, I'd probably be so scared that I'd run to a corner and hide in the fetal position. Anything that occurs in this video game has no effect on me personally (well, maybe other than frustration and anger when someone shoots me or when I repeatedly realize I have the worst computer in the world...). *Edit: Sorry I kinda went off on a huge tangent there but it's kinda related to some of the discussion. But yeah I basically have no knowledge of this Left Behind game so I can't really say anything about it.
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Post by technohawk on Dec 14, 2006 17:06:30 GMT -8
the anti-christ is considered 1) Real 2) European and 3) In charge of the UN) but this is speculation and I could be incorrect on some of those statements. This comes from prophecies about the antichrist I believe, probably from Revelation. The european and UN status are not in revelations. But the book series is based almost entirely on revelations and depicting everything that happens in that part of the bible as fact. ie. the writers do actually believe that something akin to what they wrote Will actually happen in the future. Very Dan Brownish if you ask me. Side note: You realize America's Army was actually created as a new recruitment tool for the US Army. So that if you like the game you can go sign up and kill people in Iraq for real. P.S. I'm gonna go find this Left Behind game and preview it for myself.
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Post by Prone on Dec 14, 2006 17:22:59 GMT -8
Being as my internet is acting like crap, I haven't been able to access that site you showed me, dx. However, I will continue on.
OK, this is going to be less of a rant and more of fact/opinion of myself:
All I'm saying is that I believe that if someone had no prior experience on how to deal with a situation (real or fantasy), they will go to the first person/thing that they see. This person/thing will most likely influence them in a manner that is destructive/moral.
I'm saying this game, if played by someone of that nature, may turn them in the wrong direction, or do them a bit of good, it all depends on the person at heart.
I'm like you techno. I've played tons of games. Games with violence, sex (not sure, but maybe one or two games), nudity, drugs, and I can tell you that I am very greatful that I have parents that taught me a great deal about life and life's dangers. I hold their values dear to me, so I won't struggle to do the right thing. Instead, I'll know how to do the right thing. I'm not apt at swearing, nor do I want to swear, save the situations where I'm really angry at someone.
I've never wanted to hurt someone in real life, and yes, phoenix, I do feel good when I kill someone in a game, because its just another victory.
I've had someone offer me marijuana, and I can tell you, I was a bit scared in the long run, because I never tried marijuana, and still haven't.
I'll post some more later.
D'oh.... 666th post!
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Post by technohawk on Dec 14, 2006 17:31:10 GMT -8
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